• What’s 7aki Fadi all about?

    I am going to tell you a lot of things but at the end of the day it's all 7aki Fadi (empty talk , حكي فاضي), most probably somebody out there already said it.
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Am I Secular or Agnostic?

ag·nos·tic [ag-nos-tik] Pronunciation Key
–noun
1. a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience. – One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God. – One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism

2. A person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study.

–adjective

Asserting the uncertainty of all claims to knowledge.One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something

Word History:

An agnostic does not deny the existence of God and heaven but holds that one cannot know for certain whether or not they exist. The term agnostic was fittingly coined by the 19th-century British scientist Thomas H. Huxley, who believed that only material phenomena were objects of exact knowledge. He made up the word from the prefix a-, meaning “without, not,” as in amoral, and the noun Gnostic. Gnostic is related to the Greek word gnōsis, “knowledge,” which was used by early Christian writers to mean “higher, esoteric knowledge of spiritual things”; hence, Gnostic referred to those with such knowledge. In coining the term agnostic, Huxley was considering as “Gnostics” a group of his fellow intellectuals—”ists,” as he called them—who had eagerly embraced various doctrines or theories that explained the world to their satisfaction. Because he was a “man without a rag of a label to cover himself with,” Huxley coined the term agnostic for himself, its first published use being in 1870.

sec·u·lar – [sek-yuh-ler]

–adjective
1. of or pertaining to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred; temporal: secular interests.
2. not pertaining to or connected with religion (opposed to SACRED): secular music.
3. (of education, a school, etc.) concerned with nonreligious subjects.
4. (of members of the clergy) not belonging to a religious order; not bound by monastic vows (opposed to REGULAR).
5. occurring or celebrated once in an age or century: the secular games of Rome.
6. going on from age to age; continuing through long ages.
___________________________________________________

I think I am more secular than agnostic.

If you take a close look at rituals from all religions, they are all the same. They do look different when you execute them but they all aim at the same goal, to worship God, to please God, to fill the need for worship, to feel better about yourself and what you are doing with your life.

If you are born Muslim (or any religion) you are most likely to follow Islam (that religion) than Christianity or Judaism or Buddhism. So who is it to say that this religion is better than the other and I will follow this or that? It’s very confusing, very hard to do and you are not guaranteed you picked the right one.

You might say: “All you have to do is truly study it and you will find the light, embrace it”. To you I say:” Well, others who studied other religions believe in them as much as you do if not more”.

I decided I will not follow any rituals, how does it matter if I pray five times a day, or go to Church on Sunday or meditate or or or or or.

I refuse to follow rituals that are all devised by humans to make themselves feel better.I am not going to say, “oh, I have higher moral values than religious people” , I am not out to judge people or anything, I just refuse to waste my time on rituals that in my mind just give people a purpose to live. Instead of asking, “Why am I here?” you go through the rituals so there is something to look forward to when you die.

I also find that religion is very limiting in life (I know you will say,” no the people are interpreting it wrong”) I say (that’s my point, everything is open to interpretation and it’s left to us to interpret it how we like, and in some cases there is no need for interpretation because it’s clear as daylight what the messages are).

Every religion has its good and bad, can’t I just take the good from all without labelling myself as a Muslim or Christian or Jew?

Another thing, as a female, I feel that all religions treat women as inferior in one way or the other. ALL OF THEM.

I can go on forever.

What do you think?

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31 Responses

  1. Does it really matter what we think?!

    I mean if this is how you really feel, why you care about what others think.

    Khalas that is you and that is your answer for the matter of religion.

    Personally, I choose to worship God on the basis of faith.

    I need to have a mentor in my life so I can balance things out and find the peace within. It is a line that I drew in regard to my faith. I know doing this is wrong or doing that is right and anything in between I rather stay away to be in the safe side.

    To me, it is a matter of who you value more, I mean we all value our parents, loved ones, children, ourselves. But there must be something or someone who we value more and the outmost. So, to me it is God.

    Living my life I come across many decisions in my life that I need to seek guideness to get through. I value the guideness of God the most and I go by. This could result in good or bad outcome, but within me I have peace with it because I surrendered my full intention towards God.

    That’s the route I choose to take, it’s true I was born this way, but it also took a bit of research and conflicts through my life and it took me a lot to reach this point of faith in my life, and the journey doesn’t stop here, I’m still pondering about God and his creation.

    It all comes down to what makes you the outmost peaceful within I guess.

  2. The point behing being tolerant is not disbelief in religion, it is having a faith in a religion and knowing it is the right one but not bashing others or considering them inferior to you.
    What many religious people do is thinking they are “the best” because of their belief and feeling pity for others or looking low at them for that reason, to the point of discminination and humiliation.

  3. I guess I am an agonistic!! Good to know. And I might add, not only “the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable”, even there is no immediate need to know such a thing in full. The history is important to the extent that it can help us now and in the future not to limit us. I mean it is fine from scientific point of view to try to reveal some of the origins of things one piece at a time, but no need to know the whole story today, or to invent one and believe in it to fulfill our curiosity.

    I totally agree with you and your approach. However I do not agree on some of the conclusions you reached, such as “If you take a close look at rituals from all religions, they are all the same.” In fact, religions are different due to differences in the objectives of the people invented them, such as seeking power (and I guess many of them never imagined that people hundreds and thousands of years later will remain true followers and will fight based on their teachings and those prophets would laugh if the knew or imagined such a thing), others’ objectives are truly changing people for people’s goodness, others are just philosophers, etc. It is true that some coming from different schools connected themselves to others in different school to build on their teachings but that does not change their objectives. That is why some prophets did really suffer while others allowed others to suffer for them and then they wrote the history in a way to exaggerate some minor suffering they face in seeking power to make it much more in the eyes of their followers, so they will sacrifice more for them. Back to rituals, rituals in some religions aim in purifying the human being while others aim in training them and teaching them obedience and discipline to be ready to fight and sacrifice their lives for the leader (the prophet).

    I have a question for Hareega regarding his comment: “The point behing being tolerant is not disbelief in religion, it is having a faith in a religion and knowing it is the right one but not bashing others or considering them inferior to you”. What if your religion asked you explicitly to consider others inferior to you? Not necessarily everyone but some? What if your religion approves slavery (even under extreme conditions)? What if your religion is intolerant to some religions and quasi-tolerant to some others? What if your religion requires discriminating between males and females to be a good follower or a good judge or a good leader?
    How do you consolidate that? Do you follow your religion or you change it or at least seek another interpretation that fits your taste? Thanks for your patience 

  4. actually I’m highly agnostic that I don’t even have the absolute knowledge of being either secular or agnostic, which is not my own classification. I guess you already know mine.
    I agree with you on similarities between religions. I say if God exist He will punish two types of people; those who do not believe in Him, and people harming others by any means of harm. the first is an ideological reason for punishment. and the second is behavioral. but He will not punish people just because they follow a particular religion and are not following another. from my point of view , if God exist, the criteria is not the religion but the belief in Him and the behavior towards others.
    and if God does not exist then some parts of the Indian myth should be true. which is the resurrection in a new life but without the interference of God.
    when I am agnostic I shall believe in reaching no absolute fact about God’s existence. so how can I believe or disbelieve in Him? and how must I behave in my life to guarantee that if I become religious I will get rewarded Paradise or punished in Hell otherwise? When you keep thinking in that you will find nothing absolute.
    In my hands now there is a contract for a new job. I’d better sign this contract and send it back to start my new job soon instead of making questions about God.
    by the way does that make me secular?
    you see .. I just can’t label myself as whatever!

  5. Personally, I consider myself both an agnostic and an atheist. Some people think that atheism and agnosticism are different. Well, they are different, but they share a lot in common. I usually call agnostics as “shy atheists”.

    Is it possible that a person is both religious and agnostic?! Although possible in principle, I would say it is NOT the case. If a person accepts that God may not exist, this automatically makes them disbelievers. Most religions rely on blind faith, and admitting the possibility that God may not exist is incoherent with most religious faiths.

    Also, there is wide misconception that atheists deny the existence of God. Atheists don’t deny the existence of God in the general sense. They basically, just like agnostics, admit the possibility that God may not exist.

    Generally speaking, the Gods of most religions, don’t exist. The God of Islam and Christianity are self-contradicting Gods [This is a topic on its own], and therefore cannot exist. Maybe a God does exist, but for all I know, that God cannot be the God that Islam or Christianity (or numerous other religions) claim to exist.

  6. I consider myself both agnostic and secular at the same time.

    I may be as Devil’s Mind put it a “shy atheist” but I don’t dismiss the posibility of the existance of a higher divine power. I simply dont know, but I agree with him that I don’t believe in the God of Christianity or Islam as we percieve them.

  7. Hey Anonymous: I don’t care what people think about MY religion, I wanted to see how they see religion in general.

    I completely agree with you that it does not matter what you believe in as long as you are at peace with yourself and life.

  8. Hareega: I think all religions tend to compare themselves to others and think they are better, no? That’s why one follows a religion over the other.

    Tolerance is a completely different subject here; but I will say this, religions nowadays are not tolerant of other religions in general, I am not talking about terrorism or any of that, I am talking about how they believe that they are the ones going to heaven and everybody else is not.

    Like Fadi malian said, how can you be tolerant when you religion tells you you should not be? If you do not follow your religion to the T, then you are not part of that religion.

    Secular people don’t care what other people beliefs are (at least that’s me) as long as they are not affecting others (me) negatively

  9. Fadi malian: Creative name :).
    I love how you said “no need to know the whole story today, or to invent one and believe in it to fulfill our curiosity”, that is so true, people throughout history have been known to be impatient and they need to know now and why.

    As for rituals: you bring a very interesting point of view in regards to “the founders motives”, I have not considered that before.
    While I agree with you that this plays a huge role in founding the religion and it’s rituals; I think that ordinary people that follow them don’t see the motives, they believe that they are worshiping God and not serving other humans motives; in their mind they think that this is the path to God and happiness. Maybe if they saw the motives they would question things more and won’t follow them (and I am not patronising all people, maybe they see it and they still choose to follow it).

    I think that after thousands of years, these motives get lost and they do not matter anymore. So to put it simply and generally, worshipers (by following the rituals) aim at one thing, reaching God (as how they were taught to do) to seek eternal happiness.

    I like your questions to Hareega because this is my struggle with religion, it does not fit everything in my life, I can’t follow it exactly as it is, and if I change it I am not considered to be part of it.
    Maybe I should start one :). The one and only principle is “treat others like you like to be treated” very simple and easy to follow, no?
    Do you think people will still follow it after thousands of years?

  10. Ozz: LOL @ “actually I’m highly agnostic that I don’t even have the absolute knowledge of being either secular or agnostic”, this sooooooo strikes a cord. I am so not sure about anything in regards to religion that I can’t classify myself completely, I can’t say if there is or isn’t a God, you simply can’t be 100% sure, I feel silly and funny following anything because how are you supposed to know?

    It’s funny how people love to classify everything. If you are not religious then you have to believe in something; believe that you don’t believe (hence atheist), believe that you are not 100% sure about believing (agnostic) or simply say the hell with it all, let me live and worry about the world around me (secular).

    They should invent another classification that encompasses all, no?

    Good luck with the new job 🙂

  11. Devil: the foundation of all religions is believing in God, take that away and there is no religion, so you can’t be atheist and follow a religion.

    I don’t like to follow anything blindly because some rules set by religions are obsolete and should not be followed.

    Like for example the inheritance law in Islam, it is set in the Quran and is not open for interpretation, no vague language there. A father passes away and leaves his son double what he leaves his daughter assuming the brother would take care of his sister if she were in need. Lets say she was a widow with 3 kids, do you think the brother will give her any money? Some people are good and might, but others are not, so why leave this rule and leave it to humans to do what’s right or wrong, it is simply unfair and does not make sense to me. Everybody should be equal regardless of his or her gender or age or anything

  12. Devil: the foundation of all religions is believing in God, take that away and there is no religion, so you can’t be atheist and follow a religion. – Not necessarily. Religion as a general concept is not contradicting with atheism. For example, I am a Satanist, and this does not contradict with my atheism. I simply don’t believe in a “personal god”, and this defines my atheism. I also admit the possibility of the existence of some god, so that makes me agnostic. And I believe in the supremacy of the self, which makes me a satanist. Nothing is in contradiction.

    PS: A religion does NOT need a God or a prophet. It happens that the most “popular” religions have prophets and Gods, but this doesn’t apply to all religions. A religion is simply a belief. And everyone believes in something.

  13. I can’t just watch…
    guys, I won’t reply to every point you mentioned, but think of that in this way: The one who created the universe is so great more than anyone can imagine; just look around you and how amazing everything is created (look to yourself)…
    and I’m saying the one (not the thing) cause I don’t believe that stupid theory about accidental xxx.
    and this great one (Allah as I believe) did not created us for just living this life and die!!!

    maybe you will say: “what the hell r u taking about?”
    but I’m not taking about something fictitious.

    what I mean, this issue (and Islam) can be proved mentally, and it has to.
    I won’t prove it to you, and maybe I can’t. But it worth to find out the truth about it, one of the books trying and maybe succeed in proving that is “كبرى اليقينيات الكونية لمحمد سعيد البوطي”

    By studying this issue you will lose nothing, since you’ll come up with one of two results: believe in something, or else you’ll understand others better.

  14. In fact my name was inspired by yours, just did not know what to sign and did not like to be “anonymous”, I saw yours and so I became fadi malian. But since you think it is creative, I will keep it 🙂 (if you do not mind).

  15. Devil: ya3ni inta bti3bid ilshaitan..LOL (just kidding).

    I can’t disagree with what you said. I guess some religions don’t have Gods; I was talking about the more popular “cults” 🙂

    Fadi malian: lol , of course I don’t mind, I don’t own it.

    By the way, why did you delete your previous comment, I thought it was good.

  16. Ahmad: I have no problem with understanding others and I don’t need to be enlightened.

    What we are all saying here is that we are not sure, and we can never be sure even if we read a hundred books.

  17. My point is that anybody can be sure, at least I am sure…

    It seems that you mis-understood me 😉

  18. “Devil: ya3ni inta bti3bid ilshaitan..LOL (just kidding).” – I am not sure if u’r kidding because you actually know what Satanism is really about. In a nutshell, I worship my capacity to think, evaluate, judge, and choose. This is what Satan represents to me. Other religions like Christianity spread lies about Satan and Satanism because they are afraid of the power of Satan (ie. the power to think and choose).

  19. Devil’s mind: I really was joking. I watched numerous documentaries about Satanism. Very interesting and very misunderstood.

    So you actually do believe in something, eh?

    I have a couple of questions:
    1) Is Satan a label to what you believe in or an entity that you believe in?
    2) How can you be agnostic when you believe that Satan exists or existed?

  20. I just answered your question: In a nutshell, I worship my capacity to think, evaluate, judge, and choose. This is what Satan represents to me.

    Satan is more like an idea, rather than a thing. Satan is what makes humans humans!! Our “self-awareness” is Satan. Satan is the thoughts that occur in your head. Satan is what you know, think, or believe.

    Thats pretty much it.

  21. If you want, you can view a documentary interview with a satanic priestess which I featured in a blog post here. Or even better, read parts (especially the first part) of the “Satanic Bible” by Anton Lavey.

    Many philosophers contributed to Satanism, the most important of which was Friedrich Nietzsche, who said the famous quote “God is Dead!”.

  22. Devils mind: Do you follow the doctrine? The rituals? If you do then you are part of a religion and you are not agnostic, no? You do believe in something over other things.

    At the end I believe it’s all labels. We are obsessed with labelling ourselves and others.

    I for example feel best when I meditate but I can’t bring myself to believe in Buddhism as a religion. I agree with Islam’s “be kind to your neighbour” but I can’t follow all the rituals etc etc.

    I guess humans have to identify with something or someone so they don’t feel they are alone.

  23. I don’t follow rituals. Rituals are not necessary.

    I think you’re still mentally relating Satanism to other “popular” religions. As I said, not all religions are based on “following”.

    Most religions (including Buddhism) are right hand path religions. Satanism is a left hand path religion.

    In the Satanic Bible, Anton says: No Hoary falsehood shall be a truth to me. No stifling dogma shall encramp my pen! – which means that a Satanist should not accept false beliefs, and should always look for answers.

    He also wrote: It has been said “the truth will make men free”. The truth alone has never set anyone free. It is only DOUBT which will bring mental emancipation. Without the wonderful element of doubt, the doorway through which truth passes would be tightly shut, impervious to the most strenuous poundings of a thousand Lucifers. – This is also another place where doubt is declared as essential.

    On the front cover flap of “The Satanic Rituals”, Lavey wrote: Satanism is a vital philosophy which asks you to take your fate in your own hands–break the barriers that confine you–sweep aside all that is smothering you–realize your full innate power. The most important commandment of Satanism is: Satanism demands study – not worship.

  24. Devil: Are there rituals in Satanism that YOU don’t follow, or are there no rituals?

    I am only asking because you said “On the front cover flap of “The Satanic Rituals”.. “.

    My point was some people don’t fit a mould, and they can’t be classified.

    Excuse me is I ask more than I answer because I believe I learn more if I ask more than I answer.

  25. And by the way, it has a bible, it has a book of rituals, so it’s hard for me to not see it as a religion :). Maybe not as popular, but a religion none the less.

  26. The bible is written by Anton Lavey, a distinguished philosopher. No-one claims it is written by a prophet or someone with “higher spirituality”.

    The word bible actually means large collection. For example, you might find a book titled: “The bible of medical terms” , this doesn’t mean that medicine is now a new religion, or does it?!

  27. Also, not all Satanists agree that Anton Lavey’s version of Satanism is representative of Satanism. I, for one, have objections to several texts in the Satanic Bible. I would say, Lavey’s work is really enlightening… But I wouldn’t take it as 100% granted, its merely a reference.

    Anyways, if you don’t like the idea of Satanism… At the end of the day, I am an atheist… Guess Satanism is a blurry concept for some people…

    Basically, its boils down to playing with words, so don’t bother much with it.

  28. See Devil’s mind, this is why I am secular, this requires too much thinking 🙂

  29. The problem is that I like philosophy, so I go around the corner and do some thinking!!

    Anyways, like I always say, words are conventions. So there is no point in arguing about what a word like “Satanism” really means. At the end of the days, its just a word to describe something. The thing is more important than the “word” used to describe it!

  30. I thought that might be offensive to some and I tried to avoid ending up in a long debate like the one you and devil’s mind had. 🙂 Though, it was interesting and very informative.

    And thank you (as the copy right owner) for granting me the right to use “fadi” as part of my new name. (keef hai) 🙂

  31. fadi: ta7sheesh. You even picked my template, tab yallah post something :).

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